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	<title>Comments on: Wood-Lewis: Local Grayboxx Results &#8216;Bad Advice&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://localonliner.com/2007/08/31/wood-lewis-local-grayboxx-results-bad-advice/</link>
	<description>Peter Krasilovsky&#039;s</description>
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		<title>By: Blackboxx? &#171; Think Locally</title>
		<link>http://localonliner.com/2007/08/31/wood-lewis-local-grayboxx-results-bad-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-95712</link>
		<dc:creator>Blackboxx? &#171; Think Locally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localonliner.com/?p=463#comment-95712</guid>
		<description>[...] are fair? None of the towns I tested have truly launched, so it&#8217;s too early to say. Still, Peter Krasilovsky points at a review from a Burlington resident who had a similar reaction: Grayboxx results are too [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are fair? None of the towns I tested have truly launched, so it&#8217;s too early to say. Still, Peter Krasilovsky points at a review from a Burlington resident who had a similar reaction: Grayboxx results are too [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Business Computer Repair Services</title>
		<link>http://localonliner.com/2007/08/31/wood-lewis-local-grayboxx-results-bad-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-95254</link>
		<dc:creator>Business Computer Repair Services</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localonliner.com/?p=463#comment-95254</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Complete Small Business Guide To Spotting Computer Spies &amp; Recording Devices...&lt;/strong&gt;

Can you be absolutely sure, that your activity isn&#039;t being monitored and recorded right now, while you&#039;re reading this?...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Complete Small Business Guide To Spotting Computer Spies &amp; Recording Devices&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Can you be absolutely sure, that your activity isn&#8217;t being monitored and recorded right now, while you&#8217;re reading this?&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Local Onliner &#187; Grayboxx CEO: OK, Burlington Probably ‘Too Small’</title>
		<link>http://localonliner.com/2007/08/31/wood-lewis-local-grayboxx-results-bad-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-73657</link>
		<dc:creator>The Local Onliner &#187; Grayboxx CEO: OK, Burlington Probably ‘Too Small’</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localonliner.com/?p=463#comment-73657</guid>
		<description>[...] Founder Bob Chandra responded, via phone, to criticisms of the site’s launch in Burlington,VT, which resulted in a lot of off-the-mark rankings. Chandra [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Founder Bob Chandra responded, via phone, to criticisms of the site’s launch in Burlington,VT, which resulted in a lot of off-the-mark rankings. Chandra [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Wood-Lewis</title>
		<link>http://localonliner.com/2007/08/31/wood-lewis-local-grayboxx-results-bad-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-72560</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Wood-Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 04:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localonliner.com/?p=463#comment-72560</guid>
		<description>Bob... No doubt Grayboxx sets an ambitious course.  While I&#039;ve never heard of Cafe Shelburne (so you&#039;ve piqued my curiosity), I&#039;m certainly aware of Truex Collins&#039; local reputation.  I look forward to trying Grayboxx over time and welcome it to our town.

I guess I&#039;ve got a bias against computer-generated recommendations generally... I&#039;d rather talk with someone I know or take the opportunity to meet someone new and ask for his/her two cents.

But even for an odd character like myself, an online tool such as this can be a great asset, and I prefer Grayboxx&#039;s approach over the big boys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob&#8230; No doubt Grayboxx sets an ambitious course.  While I&#8217;ve never heard of Cafe Shelburne (so you&#8217;ve piqued my curiosity), I&#8217;m certainly aware of Truex Collins&#8217; local reputation.  I look forward to trying Grayboxx over time and welcome it to our town.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;ve got a bias against computer-generated recommendations generally&#8230; I&#8217;d rather talk with someone I know or take the opportunity to meet someone new and ask for his/her two cents.</p>
<p>But even for an odd character like myself, an online tool such as this can be a great asset, and I prefer Grayboxx&#8217;s approach over the big boys.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob C.</title>
		<link>http://localonliner.com/2007/08/31/wood-lewis-local-grayboxx-results-bad-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-72363</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Sep 2007 05:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localonliner.com/?p=463#comment-72363</guid>
		<description>Michael,

As Laurence pointed out, I believe our sites are complementary rather than competitive.   I hope you view grayboxx through that lense as well.

Regarding accuracy of grayboxx&#039;s recommendations, nothing is perfect - not Google Map&#039;s algorithm nor Yelp&#039;s reviews.  Google uses URL references to rank local businesses which is problematic since many local businesses don&#039;t have websites.  And Yelp, while terrific in metro areas for categories like restaurants, is noticeably absent in small-midsize towns.  While Michael has pointed out a few cases where grayboxx has not worked optimally, there are many examples where it has.  For example:

The first result on grayboxx for Burlington restaurants is &quot;Cafe Shelburne&quot; which won The Vermont Epicurious Awards for &quot;Favorite Restaurant&quot; and for &quot;Best Restaurant Service.&quot;  it was also nominated for &quot;Top for Ambiance,&quot; &quot;Favorite Wine List&quot; and &quot;Best Chef.&quot;  Per Michael&#039;s point of bigger businesses placing first, there are probably larger restaurants with higher budgets; nonetheless Cafe Shelburne placed first according to our algorithm.

The first result for architects on grayboxx for Burlington is Truex Cullings which has won more awards than I can list here (http://www.truexcullins.com/grapevine/awards.php).  Its a highly reputable firm that has been in business for 30+ years that is clearly recognized for their first-rate work.

Michael - we don&#039;t claim to be experts everywhere, but I think the site should be judged in full, including where it provides accurate, useful results.  

Best,
Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>As Laurence pointed out, I believe our sites are complementary rather than competitive.   I hope you view grayboxx through that lense as well.</p>
<p>Regarding accuracy of grayboxx&#8217;s recommendations, nothing is perfect &#8211; not Google Map&#8217;s algorithm nor Yelp&#8217;s reviews.  Google uses URL references to rank local businesses which is problematic since many local businesses don&#8217;t have websites.  And Yelp, while terrific in metro areas for categories like restaurants, is noticeably absent in small-midsize towns.  While Michael has pointed out a few cases where grayboxx has not worked optimally, there are many examples where it has.  For example:</p>
<p>The first result on grayboxx for Burlington restaurants is &#8220;Cafe Shelburne&#8221; which won The Vermont Epicurious Awards for &#8220;Favorite Restaurant&#8221; and for &#8220;Best Restaurant Service.&#8221;  it was also nominated for &#8220;Top for Ambiance,&#8221; &#8220;Favorite Wine List&#8221; and &#8220;Best Chef.&#8221;  Per Michael&#8217;s point of bigger businesses placing first, there are probably larger restaurants with higher budgets; nonetheless Cafe Shelburne placed first according to our algorithm.</p>
<p>The first result for architects on grayboxx for Burlington is Truex Cullings which has won more awards than I can list here (<a href="http://www.truexcullins.com/grapevine/awards.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.truexcullins.com/grapevine/awards.php</a>).  Its a highly reputable firm that has been in business for 30+ years that is clearly recognized for their first-rate work.</p>
<p>Michael &#8211; we don&#8217;t claim to be experts everywhere, but I think the site should be judged in full, including where it provides accurate, useful results.  </p>
<p>Best,<br />
Bob</p>
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		<title>By: Friday Night Link-o-rama &#187; Small Business SEM</title>
		<link>http://localonliner.com/2007/08/31/wood-lewis-local-grayboxx-results-bad-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-72263</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday Night Link-o-rama &#187; Small Business SEM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 03:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localonliner.com/?p=463#comment-72263</guid>
		<description>[...] Greg Sterling began the discussion on his own blog &#8212; Grayboxx about to Go Live &#8212; and then followed that up post-launch on Search Engine Land. Meanwhile, Mike Boland covered the news on the Kelsey Group blog, too. And finally, Peter Krasilovsky reports on one local writer in the Grayboxx target area who isn&#8217;t impressed with the results. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Greg Sterling began the discussion on his own blog &#8212; Grayboxx about to Go Live &#8212; and then followed that up post-launch on Search Engine Land. Meanwhile, Mike Boland covered the news on the Kelsey Group blog, too. And finally, Peter Krasilovsky reports on one local writer in the Grayboxx target area who isn&#8217;t impressed with the results. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Laurence Hooper</title>
		<link>http://localonliner.com/2007/08/31/wood-lewis-local-grayboxx-results-bad-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-72242</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurence Hooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localonliner.com/?p=463#comment-72242</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting that Grayboxx is emphasizing small towns so much. It does look like a repositioning, doesn&#039;t it?  But I&#039;m not sure this small-town focus has a strong business model on a nationwide basis -- not until there are stronger distribution networks for small-business ads, anyways.

(What is the stated business model, by the way?  Have they said?)

In general I agree with your comments and those of Michael Wood-Lewis.  I posted my early assessment &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.loladex.com/2007/08/blackboxx.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; today, based on limited use of their beta.  I think the main task for Grayboxx in the next few months will be to tweak its algorithms -- and its presentation, possibly -- based on feedback from real people in the markets where it launches.  While it doesn&#039;t seem to be working particularly well right now, I think it has some potential.  A listening tour worked for Hillary, and I suspect it&#039;ll work for them, too.

I&#039;d very much like to hear some &lt;strong&gt;real&lt;/strong&gt; information about the sources Grayboxx is plumbing, by the way, and I suspect their users would also.  I think the company would get much more useful feedback if people understood what&#039;s behind the curtain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting that Grayboxx is emphasizing small towns so much. It does look like a repositioning, doesn&#8217;t it?  But I&#8217;m not sure this small-town focus has a strong business model on a nationwide basis &#8212; not until there are stronger distribution networks for small-business ads, anyways.</p>
<p>(What is the stated business model, by the way?  Have they said?)</p>
<p>In general I agree with your comments and those of Michael Wood-Lewis.  I posted my early assessment <a href="http://blog.loladex.com/2007/08/blackboxx.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> today, based on limited use of their beta.  I think the main task for Grayboxx in the next few months will be to tweak its algorithms &#8212; and its presentation, possibly &#8212; based on feedback from real people in the markets where it launches.  While it doesn&#8217;t seem to be working particularly well right now, I think it has some potential.  A listening tour worked for Hillary, and I suspect it&#8217;ll work for them, too.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d very much like to hear some <strong>real</strong> information about the sources Grayboxx is plumbing, by the way, and I suspect their users would also.  I think the company would get much more useful feedback if people understood what&#8217;s behind the curtain.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Wood-Lewis</title>
		<link>http://localonliner.com/2007/08/31/wood-lewis-local-grayboxx-results-bad-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-72184</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Wood-Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localonliner.com/?p=463#comment-72184</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, Peter, that Grayboxx &quot;looks great. It is elegant, and intuitive, and it is really nice to see every category heavily populated with lots of listings.&quot;  However, my initial search results were not very encouraging.  But I didn&#039;t do exhaustive testing and my definition of &quot;good&quot; results include my own bias.  I do think this service could add something.

Cathy Resmer, Burlington-area &lt;a href=&quot;http://sevendaysvt.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;journalist&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a&gt;blogger&lt;/a&gt;, found odd results too (see &lt;a&gt;her comments&lt;/a&gt;).

I should clarify, the taxi results were fine... but obvious.  There&#039;s one sizable cab company in town and then a small number of tiny ones, and that&#039;s what the search results reflected... the big one got lots of &quot;mentions,&quot; while the little ones got a few.  I happen to prefer one of the little ones (or some of the independents), so that would be my recommendation to a neighbor.

I guess the bottom line is trust.  I&#039;ll use a service if I trust that the results will be decent most of the time.  Since Grayboxx is new and hasn&#039;t shared its formula or data sources, it&#039;s starting with very low user trust.  Perhaps they&#039;ll earn it over time.  I hope they do because I like what they&#039;re trying to do and I love to see them taking on the big boys and aiming to serve the smaller markets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Peter, that Grayboxx &#8220;looks great. It is elegant, and intuitive, and it is really nice to see every category heavily populated with lots of listings.&#8221;  However, my initial search results were not very encouraging.  But I didn&#8217;t do exhaustive testing and my definition of &#8220;good&#8221; results include my own bias.  I do think this service could add something.</p>
<p>Cathy Resmer, Burlington-area <a href="http://sevendaysvt.com" rel="nofollow">journalist</a> and <a>blogger</a>, found odd results too (see <a>her comments</a>).</p>
<p>I should clarify, the taxi results were fine&#8230; but obvious.  There&#8217;s one sizable cab company in town and then a small number of tiny ones, and that&#8217;s what the search results reflected&#8230; the big one got lots of &#8220;mentions,&#8221; while the little ones got a few.  I happen to prefer one of the little ones (or some of the independents), so that would be my recommendation to a neighbor.</p>
<p>I guess the bottom line is trust.  I&#8217;ll use a service if I trust that the results will be decent most of the time.  Since Grayboxx is new and hasn&#8217;t shared its formula or data sources, it&#8217;s starting with very low user trust.  Perhaps they&#8217;ll earn it over time.  I hope they do because I like what they&#8217;re trying to do and I love to see them taking on the big boys and aiming to serve the smaller markets.</p>
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